In my philosophy class we were on the subject of logic and I believe it was Descartes who said that humans don't have an imagination, we can only take different parts of different things and combine them to 'create' something new as an idea. I completely agree with this because I have yet to imagine something that isn't bits and pieces of other things.

I started thinking about this idea a lot. A few weekends ago I started thinking, 'Well if our ideas are only ideas made up of other ideas, then those ideas couldn't have been completely new either and are made up of other ideas...and those ideas are made up of other ideas etc etc until you get to the single simplest idea.

So the idea of lets say an iPod, is made up of the idea of a screen...and all the things beneath the screen. The idea for a screen, and all the things beneath the screen that make an iPod work, come from ideas of simpler things and you can keep getting simpler and simpler ideas that make up the next idea.

But let's take that to the creation of a body;
It's made up of thousands of cells and atoms (that are like 'ideas') that put in place just right make up the person that you are. (Just another example, but here's where the mind blowing begins).

If we work backwards...basically rewind time, we just saw the entire creation of technology, the human race, earth, the moon, our universe...that's built off of 'ideas' that came before it until you get to one single idea (like a proton/electron) and if you duplicate that 'idea' you get something completely new (add atoms you get a molecule). Those 'ideas' slowly started making the universe that we know today one 'idea' at a time.

But right before that first 'idea' there was nothing and that 'idea' just popped into existence...

-That idea is our universe-

Our universe is just an 'idea' that somebody thought of. But because nobody can just think of the complexity of the universe as a single idea, it build upon itself and grows into what we call the universe today.

Any idea you think of, is something that now exists in this, or a different, universe. You can think of something that happened at the beginning of that universe, the middle of the universe's existence, or towards the end. Since time doesn't matter in the whole 'idea' of a universe, the newly created universe creates it's past and future around the idea you just created. This gives us an infinite amount of universes and helps the multiverse theory.

I just want to know who was the person who thought of our universe...and would this mean that our entire universe is just an idea in somebody's head?

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Sat, 04/07/2012 - 7:04pm


Tue, 02/28/2012 - 6:28pm
bakayurei Says:

ah, there's something i never thought of.. the conclusion that i've always drawn from that has been that the world is out there, and it can't have been imagined into existence since it would have had to have been there to begin with for us to percieve, as we can't imagine new things.. right?

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 6:40pm
Gizmodo Says:

that's exactly how I thought about it for a while until I started thinking about the ideas that make up my ideas...they had to come from somewhere too right? after that the whole idea just sort of fell into place without me even thinking about it

Wed, 02/29/2012 - 1:33pm
bakayurei Says:

it's quite a jump from ideas to reality tho, isn't it? an object in the real world can bring up ideas of that object in your head (which is about as far as i can take plato's idea of heavenly forms seriously), but it doesn't work the other way around .. .. hm.. unless we're literally building our world thought by thought .. but then that's another question altogether, and raises lots of its own questions, e.g. why there's a consensus about what the world looks like .. .. anyway.. yea you identified a possible infinite regression and stopped it in its tracks ('those ideas are made of other ideas, etc., until you get to the single simplest idea..') but you had a solution to that from the beginning- that line of regression stops where you said it would stop, with ideas being generated by ideas being generated by ideas being generated by experience of real-world objects, and i don't see a need to invent more solutions when there's one there for you already

hm.. unless i haven't understood your point haha

Wed, 02/29/2012 - 7:30pm
Gizmodo Says:

If you work backwards it helps bring everything to a single point, but then the person who 'popped' the idea into existence also had to come from somewhere. But it does help us explain what was here before the universe because the universe isn't actually taking up any space since it's just an idea.

If you keep moving forwards however, it helps explain the idea of infinity because every complex idea (a human) comes up with ideas of their own that create other universes (which build themselves forwards and backwards from the point that was being thought about) and if you think about all of the ideas just you alone have had, that's a substantial amount of universes. Now add all the ideas that everybody in all of existence has add all of the people created in the universes created from the ideas of the people in our universe.

you get an exponential growth of n^(x^y1+y2+.....yn2) n2=infinity

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 3:15am
Elnicko Says:

Reality is just your ideas though, its all just thought.


Wed, 02/29/2012 - 7:30pm
Gizmodo Says:

oops i replied to your post by creating a new comment

Sat, 04/07/2012 - 5:52pm

It's ok bro
Can you help me pick up some of the pieces of my brain and put it back in my head?
Thanks 8>0......

Wed, 02/29/2012 - 10:41pm
Elnicko Says:

I like it, but there is kind of a difference between real world objects and ideas.

Ideas are formed through the interpretation of real world objects, I think this leads to an infinite paradox that can be stopped if we create a difference of comprehension of real world, and ideas. Even though there very well be no difference between the two.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 6:53am
Gizmodo Says:

You also interpret the world through your senses and we've proved that our senses trick us all the time. We just interpret what we think the world appears to be through our senses but we really have no idea what it's actually like. The same world appears to be different between a human, a dog, and a bat so who's right? How can we have 3 different worlds right there in the exact same place?

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 3:12am
Elnicko Says:

I think there are honesty, like, me and my mother experience reality, but completely different reality, in completely different space at all times, and have independent thought patters, two different worlds and they seem to remain separate, or enclosed within a human body, unable to contact each other except through the physical realm.
I feel like a consciousness trapped in a body when we start talking like this lol... I just wanna fly off into the infinite abyss of bliss that is the universe.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 6:24am

This has a very good point. In between reality and infinite possibilities is where people draw the line. They have ideas based on what the world believes can be done as opposed to what could be done if we just expanded our minds. What if you could curve bullets? (Yes, it's a movie reference). Imagine if no one told you bullets fly straight, would you think that it does, or would you think that it's possible to bend "the law of physics"? People perceive reality on what they're programmed to believe is possible and not possible. What if it just so happens to be that we can not only bend the laws of physics, but break them entirely? It's hard for us to think outside the box we've been programmed to stay in. What if we did know that we have infinite possibilities, but have not the know-how on how to achieve what's deemed impossible? The idea that something is impossible is derived from the fact that people see it as breaking the laws of physics among other laws and they see it as an impossible task. But it's only said to be impossible because the "laws" say so. I think this is where our difference of reality and "ideas" is composed. We know what is real by experiencing it, we have yet to experience what we believe to be impossible, therefore deeming it an idea. I'm sorry if this makes no sense. It does to me, so I hope you understand it as well.

Thu, 03/29/2012 - 11:38am
Conman880 Says:

I just read through all this and by the end I kept thinking to myself that it makes more sense that we are a creation or recreation built by our future selves or even something else. Because the way you explained the ipod and how its broken down really makes me think of our world as just an object like an ipod. For me it makes more sense to think we are the result of an unexplainable future, compared to the idea of god snapping his fingers.

Sat, 04/07/2012 - 3:09pm

i'm not sure how would one be able to conclude that the universe began with 'something' thinking of an 'idea'. while the physical universe can relate to the relationships of ideas and how they build on each other, just because the metaphor works, doesn't mean a conclusion like this can be jumped to. if the universe indeed was spawned by an 'idea' that compounded exponentially, there would be absolutely no way to test or measure the link to the conscious mind thinking the idea. more than that, i dont see why this hypothesis would be made, when our ideas are created they certainly don't product mini big bangs, nor do they produce any physical matter. ideas are produced by energy fluctuating in our brain through neural synapses, though i have absolutely no idea what it is creating the idea, whether it is simply an organically produced intelligence or possibly a higher dimensional consciousness / spirit. that being said, the universe breaks down at the quantum level into completely nonsensical 'ideas', so you could say that the 'simplest' or most basic ideas that make up the universe are the most complex. also, the macro scale of the universe seems to work perfectly logically, and simple math equations can describe almost all processes and phenomenon of nature. if anything math is the idea that created the universe.

Sat, 04/07/2012 - 7:47pm
GrimReafer Says:

Only solid theory I've read yet in these comments, I was going to post almost the same exact thing, but you beat me to it. Good stuff. It's ridiculous to think we could ever know exactly where our thoughts, or dreams, or ideas derive from. It's just energy being circulated through the brain and the universe on different frequencies, as you said. I'm a writer and as soon as I get an outstanding idea for a poem, or narrative, or whatever I'm writing, it's literally as If I'm connected at that moment on some other wavelength and it's as some muse is sending me these ideas and words and projecting them in my thoughts. Oh, and of course it's impossible to think up something that is entirely new to this universe, since the big bang, and throughout all human evolution there have been no inventions only innovations. Cavemen decided to take a rock, attach it to the end of a stick and use it as a tool. now the tool itself is a new idea, but the cavemen didn't invent rocks or create sticks either. He just took what the universe gave him to create something new. I really liked your twist on quantum theory and how the most simple ideas are yet the most complex to. Good stuff everyone, love you all.

Sat, 04/07/2012 - 10:47pm
Gizmodo Says:

but you also can't prove the physical universe around us is actually there. our senses don't actually tell us what is out there. its just electrical signals firing through our brains trying to comprehend what is out there...but we could even say that there truly is nothing like we think thats out there

Sat, 04/07/2012 - 11:09pm
GrimReafer Says:

I never said there is for sure a physical, concrete universe, I totally agree with you. Personally I believe the universe is all just energy and illusions, we are just balls of energy that have the ability to project images and make them seem real, when really they are just hallucinations. That's not really a theory or anything just my own personal meandering. But no, I still understand the theory your presenting and its totally plausible, but If their wasn't dudes out their willing to challenge theories or ideas , nothing would ever get discovered or considered lol That's what I love is that their is so many possibilities of what reality is, almost everyone can individually have their own opinion.

Sat, 04/07/2012 - 3:34pm

So than you must ask yourself, How did the idea of GOD come into being, who was the person that thought of it, i find it hard for there to be a simpler idea. Since god itself is complex in its own nature, however, you cant build the idea of god because it doesnt even exist.

This is a mindfuck and ill think about it more after i take a few bong rips.

Sat, 04/07/2012 - 11:07pm

i think the idea of god was thought of based on pushing phenomenon in human nature to the extremes
what qualities did people believe god has?
were any of them unrelated to qualities we, ourselves have, to a limited extent?
i would say all of the properties are mirrored in human beings, and thus our idea of god is similar to what an idea of a perfect human would be, much like the bible describes jesus, or god, as a perfect human without sin.
for example:
"god is everywhere"
humans can adapt to environments all over the planet, and our thoughts can reach to the corners of the universe and beyond
"god is all knowing"
there is technically no 'limit' to the amount of knowledge humanity can obtain, given that we don't kill ourselves or go extinct, our technology should continue to improve exponentially. this increases our ability to obtain knowledge about the universe. likewise, we have developed math, which seems to reflect the universe perfectly, and so the things we may understand through math are more or less infinite.
"god is all powerful"
humans have yet to master an efficient power source, but civilizations could theoretically learn to harness the power of stars, and thus become immortal. with limitless energy, all other limitations are broken.
"god is invisible"
what part of you makes you you? if i remove your arm, will you be you? of course. thoughts and ideas are made up of neurons firing, sure, but the consciousness that arises from the brain has been all but proven to be "higher" and even "non-local" to the brain. out of body experiences have been had while the brain and body are completely shut down, in near death experiences, which no neuroscientist can explain even today. we are invisible, though we have material bodies to play with.
"god is all loving / gentle / merciful / etc."
humans have the capacity for these virtues, though usually we only exercise them with people we love or care for.

Mon, 04/09/2012 - 12:20pm
cannaBE Says:

i completely agree that the form of god and the words that are used to describe the concept of god are just projections of "good" characteristics, or things that we can more or less wrap our minds around. but in addition to this is the entire concept of the human mind network, which feels and acts "invisible, everywhere, powerful, and knowing." (read the Spectrum of Consciousness by Ken Wilbur, because he explains it far better than I could ever hope to) if you choose connect almost all major religions with this theory, then so much of the nonsensical paradoxes that people often write off, confused and annoyed, actually make sense.
so i do believe that the human network, the thing that connects us all, that we can only experience during a severance of all conscious or shallow thought, is the main idea. the one idea that is humanity... and i don't know if we created that, or we are created from it, but i guess it doesn't really matter... chicken and the egg sort of deal.

Mon, 04/09/2012 - 7:24pm

i'm glad you mentioned that, good point. i also believe the human consciousness network could explain the truth of the metaphors many religions present. it's amazing how intuitive our ancestors were, they couldn't even explain what things are made of, but they were wise enough to put many mysteries together into metaphorical truths.

Sat, 04/07/2012 - 4:14pm

can this mean that someone is thinking through our heads? like we're making someones thoughts in reality, you get what I'm feeling?

Sat, 04/07/2012 - 9:35pm

I like your first paragraph on "imagination" in general. But, that's what imagination is man. America and Canada have never gone to war but they may some day. Make movies about that or just think about all these ideas that come to you simply off that thought. Thats your imagination! Imagine that...

Sat, 04/07/2012 - 9:44pm

However. America, Canada, and war are all already ideas :D

Sat, 04/07/2012 - 10:04pm
Hanzee92 Says:

And here I thought I was special for having a big imagination.. :(

Sat, 04/07/2012 - 10:29pm
Locifer Says:

I logged in just to vote and comment on this. I'm not going to go far into this, but I'll just say I've had these thoughts and I still do. It sometimes gets to me, we all being of one consciousness, because there are some people that I don't exactly care for, but I can't do anything about that. I just want to say, it's people like you that give me hope. Read issac asimov. He had a wonderful mind

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 2:01am
sopunika Says:

you sir, have now officially fucked my mind. congratulations.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 6:03am

If everything in the universe, including people, is just an idea that someone or something thought of, it still doesn't explain how that being came to be and where the thought to create this place came from. There are so many unanswered questions that I fear we'll never know the answers to. I feel that if we could access our entire brain that we may come to find the answers we seek, but until then we're flying blind. If we are an idea, which I'm sure we are, how did our creator come to be? What was there before him/her? I would rather know these answers in life than death, but it's more probable that we'll never figure it all out at the rate evolution is going. This is a good idea, it really makes you think.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 10:14pm